Curse

Coridan · Jan 30, 2007, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Testing Weekend #2 30 January 2007
This weekend, starting around Noon PST on Friday, you'll have another opportunity to test updates for Guild Wars. We're rolling in a significant number of skill changes along with updates to Heroes' Ascent, as well. We'll be leaving the changes in place this time, but will assess player feedback to help formulate future balance changes and updates, so we hope you'll try out these changes and provide your feedback on the fan forums.
http://www.guildwars.com/

Looks like they are rolling it out wethere its "ready" or not...atleast something is gonna change and sounds like they will be making adjustments on the fly as well...i think its a good thing...but they should just call it a skill balance and leave it at that since its going to permenant.

Havre Fras · Jan 31, 2007, 12:43 AM // 00:43

I don't understand it. Why is it called a testing weekend when the changes are permenant?

Vital · Jan 31, 2007, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havre Fras

I don't understand it. Why is it called a testing weekend when the changes are permenant?

Because "Testing" gets you high. In a balancing emergency, you're taking giant panicked damage. Suddenly you become euphoric, docile. You accept your fate. It's all right here. Reconnecting to server - 30 frames per second. Blank faces, calm as Hindu cows.

A special thank you to Tyler Durden!

Alleji · Jan 31, 2007, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havre Fras

I don't understand it. Why is it called a testing weekend when the changes are permenant?

Maybe they'll do tweaking based on player feedback during the test, like they did with divert hexes and that rit skill, and then leave it in place at the end...

Evilsod · Jan 31, 2007, 03:10 AM // 03:10

They're turning permanent skill change updates into weekend events now (even though they're not), when will the fun stop?!

This is gonna be so utterly pointless. They won't do anything useful with this testing weekend. All thats gonna happen is skill changes that people really hate or are completely unbalanced get changed in the next few days. Ones that become abused will get looked at for the next skill change. Ones that made absolutely shit or always were will never get a look in and will remain unused.

Basically its the same as every other skill change. Only this time they cast Illusion of Interaction (for 1 weekend event, all players assume there comments matter with regard to skills not used by High end GvG or HA teams).

VitisVinifera · Jan 31, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Because their in-house testers apparently can't get the job done, and we are debugging their game for them (a form of no-cost outsourcing?)

When people like me can usually only play during the weekends, and we have no idea what the skills are going to do now, it diminishes the value of playing for me.

Inde · Jan 31, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Thanks to Klaus for pointing this out for me:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

The plan is to roll out the second and more-final version of the permanent update around February 2nd. Then, you guys hammer on them, assess, post, the designers read, and some final tweaks are made.

Testing probably will go like this:

* Test
* Rollback, make a large number of adjustments based on primary test <-- where we are just now
* Test
* Tweak, while leaving the changes in the game

I will ask about that, maybe there will be a rollback, but I think it is more like as I outlined above.

http://guild-hall.net/forum/showthre...480#post544480

Redfeather1975 · Jan 31, 2007, 04:37 AM // 04:37

It's not really a bad way of doing things.
They have already tried changing the functionality of skills and have seen if the player base likes those kind of changes, while at the same time have seen where they dropped the ball clearly on buffs or debuffs.
I think these skill testing before releasing are ways to see what types of skill 'functionality' changes players would like.
Some skills were made very different in the last weekend and it was really cool that we got to comment on their new use.

fRag_Doll · Jan 31, 2007, 05:05 AM // 05:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havre Fras

I don't understand it. Why is it called a testing weekend when the changes are permenant?

Yeah, that's a bit of a mis-communication. Perhaps it should be called a "Tweaking Weekend".

Gaile Gray · Jan 31, 2007, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

Because their in-house testers apparently can't get the job done, and we are debugging their game for them (a form of no-cost outsourcing?)

What nonsense, honestly! You're invited to share your thoughts. We're perfectly capable of rolling out the best changes that we feel are appropriate and needed, but we'd rather have you involved in the process, to contribute your thoughts and have a real influence on the game that you love to play. This is something that players have asked for since the Beta Weekend Events prior to Guild Wars' first release. It astounds me that you can find room for criticism in our responding to player request, and being more, and not less, inclusive and responsive. Frankly, I'm disappointed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

Maybe they'll do tweaking based on player feedback during the test, like they did with divert hexes and that rit skill, and then leave it in place at the end...

Yes, that's it exactly! Now, I appreciate the attraction of conspiracy theories and pop culture references.

But it's really very simple: The weekend updates will remain, but will be adjusted, possibly more than once, based on your feedback, input, suggestions, and general observations. The team will be observing numerous game matches for imbalance, and will also be carefully following forum threads to give consideration to what the players share as far as valuable feedback.

I have to say that I am actively reading forums every waking hour during these weekends, as are many others on the team. Designers note your responsees and exchange emails over the course of the weekend, and sit down and appraise the overall feedback at the end of the weekend. Now, again, it could be a arm's length, "We know what's best" update. Or we can include player feedback, with the admission (shameful, it is not) that players are a great source of input, and that having 100,000 bashing on an update provides us with a ton of good input that makes the tweaks better, more grounded, more deeply analyzed, and therefore more appropriate. I'd say "It's all good," but at the least, I'd like to ask that we not disparage the process until we've seen how it works. Deal?

N E D M · Jan 31, 2007, 05:44 AM // 05:44

i hope evade is going bye-bye for good.

brokenmonkey · Jan 31, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

"Because their in-house testers apparently can't get the job done, and we are debugging their game for them (a form of no-cost outsourcing?)"

What?!!?!? You have No idea what your saying do you.

Apok Omen · Jan 31, 2007, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

We'll be leaving the changes in place this time, but will assess player feedback to help formulate future balance changes and updates, so we hope you'll try out these changes and provide your feedback on the fan forums.

The problem isn't that Anet doesn't look at the forums enough to look at the suggestions that we box in.

The Problem is that they just end up making completely different changes opposite to our suggestions.

We tell them that Necromancer Hexes and energy management is over-powered, yet they end up buffing the normal Necromancer hexes and only make slight nerfs to really over-powered Spells ( i.e. Reaper's Mark-only nerfing the energy gain by 1..2 ...)

The community posts why certain builds are imbalanced yet no change is made( yes, I am mentioning Steady Stance>Desperation/Drunken Blow>FearMe and Bone Minions>Jagged Bones>Death Nova recipes)

Also, we have taken Anet's word for it when they stated clearly that they will listen to us, but it always ends up the same.

HOWEVER, I am not being fair, jumping to quick conclusions. If Anet has learned from the past, then they would do their best to pay close attention to the forums more than ever.

I have faith in Anet that their final decisions will be rewarding( especially since they removed Scarred Earth and reintroduced Burial Mounds

)

The Ernada · Jan 31, 2007, 06:10 AM // 06:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by VitisVinifera

Because their in-house testers apparently can't get the job done, and we are debugging their game for them (a form of no-cost outsourcing?)

Umm. They're letting US the customers give them feedback with OUR opinions and you still complain about it? And congrats on getting a second of your idiotic quotes getting a response from Gaile. Your first quote of how ANET was simply being lazy for not implementing reconnects still is a classic.

Siva arwen · Jan 31, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Gaile Gray, Is there anything that you can let us know about the list of the skill balance for this weekend test? or Is there anything about the skill balance that we can know it before Friday? Because there r many people want to know it, we all knew there are a lot useless skill that haven't touch in the preview test weekend.
So we want to know is there will be more buff to the skill that Anet hasn't touch it yet or it just to tweak the skill from the January-19th-updated?

Apple · Jan 31, 2007, 06:26 AM // 06:26

So, Steady Stance, Grenths, Melandru (possibly) nerf and uhh.. 15s crippling shot, 5e/bugged exhaustion gale, 10% OoB sac? I'm in!

Redfeather1975 · Jan 31, 2007, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Gaile, do not let comments like that get to you.
Not everyone can see how nice it is to get to give feedback on the mechanics of the game they get to play. It is very cool that this is happening and many people appreciate that a game, they get to play for free, is offering an avenue for helping to shape the skills within.

I like the skill testing weekend idea, but....my only problem was that I was not very motivated to play the game after the weekend until the time comes that the skills would be changed to their new incarnations. I feel that I may not be alone on that. It is just a feeling of being in limbo and not knowing if the skills I buy or builds I put together are going to work out in the end.

I am a long time fan of Everquest 2 and I play on both a live server and test server, and was wondering if it would be possible to somehow set up a test server to test skills before rolling those changes onto a live server.
It might require a different method of logging in to that server though.
I do not know how it would work, but in EQ2 it was a very nice way for continuous player feedback on future ideas/changes without being disruptive to the general population.

Evilsod · Jan 31, 2007, 07:00 AM // 07:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

I have to say that I am actively reading forums every waking hour during these weekends, as are many others on the team. Designers note your responsees and exchange emails over the course of the weekend, and sit down and appraise the overall feedback at the end of the weekend. Now, again, it could be a arm's length, "We know what's best" update. Or we can include player feedback, with the admission (shameful, it is not) that players are a great source of input, and that having 100,000 bashing on an update provides us with a ton of good input that makes the tweaks better, more grounded, more deeply analyzed, and therefore more appropriate. I'd say "It's all good," but at the least, I'd like to ask that we not disparage the process until we've seen how it works. Deal?

Do you all happen to skip over threads and posts regarding skills that are currently completely useless? I'm *almost* certain that nobody actually asked for Arcing Shot to be buffed, damage wise. It was a quota meeting/enemy only skill, no-one actually uses it. People have been wanting skill buffs to the currently useless and underpowered skills for a long, long time, the only 1 i really saw was Incendiary Arrows (which was a nice change in all honesty).

Its not a case of simply saying you addressed the problem with DoTAoEs been useless by upping the damage, that was a no brainer and was echoed throughout the entire DoTAoE line. Its actually attempting to make something worth using.

Gaile Gray · Jan 31, 2007, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siva arwen

Gaile Gray, Is there anything that you can let us know about the list of the skill balance for this weekend test? or Is there anything about the skill balance that we can know it before Friday? Because there r many people want to know it, we all knew there are a lot useless skill that haven't touch in the preview test weekend.
So we want to know is there will be more buff to the skill that Anet hasn't touch it yet or it just to tweak the skill from the January-19th-updated?

I wish that we could "preview" the skill balances, but as I understand it, the team is still working on them, and given that it takes at least 2 full days (48 hours) to allow time for Localization, there's no way that we can give a sneak peek at the skill changes.

I tried to get that two weeks ago, but there was a flurry of activity towards the end, and it wasn't possible to present a list of changes. We don't really like to post in English and leave our players who speak other languages without the information, so we have to plan carefully and leave enough time for complete and thorough localization in a large number (10 and growing) of languages.

The good news is that we're already moving forward on a page about the Canthan New Year event and we will be able to provide information about that in advance of the event. For the skill balancing, well, I'm sorry that such a preview of the changes cannot be offered this week, but I'll continue to advocate for us to present lists early, whenever we can!

kurtas · Jan 31, 2007, 07:29 AM // 07:29

Quote:

HOWEVER, I am not being fair, jumping to quick conclusions. If Anet has learned from the past, then they would do their best to pay close attention to the forums more than ever.

Thats a pretty big if.

Considering they've been constantly buffing never used skills with useless changes since the game came out despite critisism from the player base. Pair that with Anets aparent disregard for the overwhelming stream of players giving them the "constructive feedback" that 6v6 simply dosen't work, and you've got one very gigantic IF.